Remember how I reviewed the Justice show at 9:30 club many months back and caught serious flack on the comments for being a jealous hater, bitter DJ, etc. because I accused them of scamming their audiences?
Yeah well, my point has been proven. Recent photographic evidence shows Justice playing “live”, yet one of their key controllers is unplugged.
They could have been “rehearsing” or “in sound check,” but I don’t buy the bullshit. Just like the Daft Punk of late (and not the ones who toured for Alive ‘97 or the crew I saw DJ and play live synths on a boat on the Left Bank in 2002), they are fucking manufactured drones that perpetuate the stereotype and misconception that all electronic music is soulless and without innovation.
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That is a very keen observation Chris. Not only is the unit unplugged, it’s not even a 1/4″ cable or XLR cable going to a mixer or amplifier.
Funny that you say that they could’ve been “rehearsing” or “in sound check.” Who soundchecks with an unplugged piece of equipment????
We’re all aware that many electronic artists have to use some pre-programmed stuff in order to recreate live sounds. And there’s nothing wrong with sequencing some of your arrangement and playing the rest live. But should we be upset with artists who are straight frontin’? Fakin’ the funk, so to speak?
I’m sure if you ask anyone who attended the Justice show @ 930 or Sonar, they’ll say they had a great time.
(PS Sometimes I wonder if the guys in Kraftwerk go on stage and just use G-Chat while playing a set off I-tunes).
November 20, 2008 at 11:26 amThis may be one of the greater satisfaction moments in Chris’ life. You can just smell the gloat.
November 20, 2008 at 11:29 amThe crowd always gets live when i play the electric slide or anything from young mc.
November 20, 2008 at 11:32 am….for christ’s sake……
and by the by, i looked up the MPD24, it’s not wireless
November 20, 2008 at 11:39 amNo doubt the evidence is right. there. looking at you, but I wonder if their fans or casual observers (read, someone like me who could really give a hoot) will care? I’m thinking the fallout on ’scandals’ like this gets diminished with every instance. Like, after Milli Vanilli and Bill Clinton how much outrage can you expect from lipsyncing or extramarital sex in the White House?
November 20, 2008 at 11:42 amBecause respect from the hipsters means everything?
November 20, 2008 at 11:44 amI used to own an MPD24, the unplugged device shown in the picture. Its not wireless, but its hooked up by plugging the usb controller in to the computer, which controls ableton/sampler/etc, which then outputs the sound through an external soundcard device or simply through the 1/4″ headphone jack. Nerd shit.
but yes i am loving this….
November 20, 2008 at 11:48 amMind you, I’m not taking away from Chris’ sense of vindication, just sayin’: outside of that ….
November 20, 2008 at 11:51 amIt looks like his USB plug is right there though…
If you wanted wireless, you’d need a wireless midi interface plugged into the midi outs.
November 20, 2008 at 11:54 amI think that casual observers and fans SHOULD care because they’re being duped. If Justice can’t be bothered to manipulate this equipment live, then why should the fans shell out all that $$$ for a ticket. After all, if it’s nothing more than their album and remixes, then screw it. Stay at home and blast the CDs or mp3s on a really high quality sound system. Why pay money to hear an album blasted at 100+ dBs, when you can do it in the comfort of your own home?
Again, there’s nothing wrong with using sequencers or backing tapes. If you look at old footage of Depeche Mode and Human League, they did the same thing. But they also played synths, guitars, drums, etc over those prepared arrangements. But if Justice can’t even be bothered to plug in their toys, it really makes you wonder how serious they are about their art.
November 20, 2008 at 11:56 amtheir fans probably couldn’t care less, or won’t hear about it, because their fans suck just as much as they do.
November 20, 2008 at 11:58 ami sort of assumed that this was the case, BUT i think, for someone that would desire to pay money to go to a justice/daft punk/whatever show, it still makes sense because you are paying to hear the music at incredible volumes, on a very good sound system, with 1000+ other fans who are all writhing around.
i am not a big fan of Justice (though I think they have some catching songs and I think it’s cool they are drawing more attention to Goblin with that track that uses like a 30 second Goblin sample), but everyone at the show I attended was having a great time, it seemed, so… whatever.
That said, I am happy for your vindication, Chris!
Randal Graves: I don’t appreciate your ruse, ma’am.
Indecisive Video Customer: I beg your pardon?
Randal Graves: Your ruse. Your cunning attempt to trick me.
Indecisive Video Customer: I was only pointing out that you weren’t paying any attention to what I was saying.
Randal Graves: And I hope it feels good.
Indecisive Video Customer: You hope *what* feels good?
Randal Graves: I hope it feels so good to be right. There’s nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?
@Patrick:
I don’t normally go to see huge acts like Justice, but when I did, I’d go for the show, like, to see the band actually be there, and be part of the whole live show experience, eg. the lights, the crowd response etc. I’m not even sure I’d feel duped if I went to the Bad Brains show on election night, bc it’s Bad Brains and HR — whether he was stuck in a 2 hour prayer-trance or not. Duped is what people should feel when someone like Cat Power fucks her shows up by throwing little hissy fits about the sound or her musicians throughout, or when Ryan Adams is offstage hiding. But with Justice, they’re putting on a show and the crowd is feeling it. So I don’t see what’s so wrong about that.
@Amanda
How the hell can fans suck? Seriously, what is that? Do they knock on your door like Jehovah’s and ask for donations and your soul? Do they beat you up for not liking Justice?
!?!?!?!
fitsum, you know that when you go to a show there’s a certain type of person that is attracted to that sort of music.
justice fans are usually pretty obnoxious (so are people who listen to exclusively electronic music). worse than me and my complaints on this site. don’t play dumb, i know you know the type of people i’m talking about.
anyway, chris, i’m happy for you.
November 20, 2008 at 12:32 pmDid anyone actually think that there was a large amount of live music being played at a Justice show? Or a Daft Punk show? It’s electronic music performance art. I mean, the music is made by tedious sequencing on a laptop. A live show is the experience, it’s not going to see a jazz quartet. DJ’s don’t usually write the music on the records they play. It’s a party. It’s a show. Everyone should know that going in. Again, is anyone shocked by an unplugged piece of equipment? Their stage setup is a big huge giant fake piece of equipment. With fake wires everywhere. That’s part of their shtick right? I mean they don’t need any of that stuff, it just makes for a fun experience. It’s like a few years ago when vinyl DJ’s were freaking out on digital DJ’s. And then they looked around and saw that as long as the kids were dancing, it didn’t matter what the equipment was. Nobody cares. It’s either a good party or a bad party. Are the kids dancing at the Justice party? Yes. Success.
November 20, 2008 at 12:36 pmi will have to agree with cale about the dancing. i wish more people would dance all the time. or feel comfortable dancing in front of others.
November 20, 2008 at 12:46 pmLike I said above, there’s nothing wrong with using sequencers and samplers in a live environment. Hell, a lot of groups use sequencers so that they don’t have to lug expensive and volatile analog or digital equipment.
But isn’t it fair to assume that the MPD24 is a fundamental part of their setup? There’s no reason why fans should settle for less.
On the real, why is it that our standards as pop fans have dropped so low. We gobble up albums where singers have their voices heavily treated by autotune, and then complain that they can’t sing. (Granted, it is not possible to use autotune live, but it’s still not the same).
Yes, yes. Still, what about the unplugged equipment?.. That’s wrong, isn’t it?
November 20, 2008 at 12:51 pmOK, Amanda, I’m playing dumb: so please explain. and spell out to my slow ass exactly what makes these electronic music fans more obnoxious than people who go to hardcore shows who want to violently mosh when you don’t? or house music parties where mf’s break out that bloodclot baby powder and pour it all over the floor as if everyone in the house needs that shit?
November 20, 2008 at 12:52 pm“The better the singer, the harder it is to believe what he’s saying.” - David Byrne
November 20, 2008 at 12:52 pm@ N.: the usb cable is unplugged in the pic. and there’s no MIDI cables plugged in MPD, either.
this is hilarious. love it. thanks, Mr. Burns.
November 20, 2008 at 12:55 pmThe response from Justice:
“I couldn’t remember the city but I think it was in Manchester,” he said.
“I didn’t notice at first, because as you can see I was looking at the computer to launch the next vocal hook and right after I realised that the blue screen went black, so there was no way possible it could work. So I plugged it back in, big deal! And the next thing you know is this picture.”
November 20, 2008 at 12:58 pmwhy the hell did they even act like they were using that equipment? that is the real question. cale says that maybe it’s their shtick and it makes for a fun experience, but why not add to the light show or have him doing something else beside being all gay and faking like he is operating unplugged equipment? i agree with at least something from almost everyone here, but the bottom line, IMO, is why fake it?
TOTALLY GAY.
November 20, 2008 at 1:06 pmNo one would care if they wore cool costumes.
November 20, 2008 at 1:07 pmi don’t buy the response. liargayfaker
November 20, 2008 at 1:07 pmi don’t think comparisons to daft punk are really fair…. daft punk was very upfront about saying they didn’t mix live on their last tour, and they didn’t pretend to …. they were putting on arena rock shows, not club sets … besides, they put in their time, they made fucking discovery, they’ve earned the right to have people pay to watch them crap on the bible if they want
justice on the other hand … i disagree with people who say their fans won’t care … i say this ends their careers
@chris burns, not to ruin your moment, but did you see the Girl Talk review in the NYT today?
November 20, 2008 at 1:10 pm“N. Says:
….for christ’s sake……
and by the by, i looked up the MPD24, it’s not wireless
November 20, 2008 at 11:39 am”
Did you really? LOL.
I hope you know I was kidding.
Just had a look at the Akai website, here’s what I found about this particular model, the mpd24:
*MIDI and/or USB operation
*USB powered (or powered via optional AC adaptor)
So that explains the lack of an AC adaptor. But still, notice how delicately he’s holding that thing. How could the USB cable just come out?
November 20, 2008 at 1:11 pmThe very sight of this Justice betrays a certain lack of genuine creativity. Like gypsies they look. I wonder what the sound is like. A cacophony of some sort, no doubt. Why can’t everyone be like the Beatles, for example?
November 20, 2008 at 1:15 pmPatrick - I’m not defending Justice here, just looking objectively at the evidence - he could have pulled the entire device forward or back before the pic was taken, then started twiddling, or maybe the cable was pulled out by pressure on the other side.
November 20, 2008 at 1:19 pmI don’t buy Justice’s repsonse either. What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to fake it at least plug in everything to make it look real.
And what I’m really jealous of is dude’s sweet stache. Just look at that thing!
November 20, 2008 at 1:23 pmcareer ending?doubt it.
If I were them, I’d use this as a jumpoff point to put together a simultaneous 7 continent tour w/ a crew of dirty ass ’stached lookalikes. Maybe not even lookalikes. maybe some Laurel and Hardy looking mf’s in some continents, whatever. Make giant middle fingers in the form of a lit up crucifix and call it the Howyalikemenow? tour.
@Jeff Koz : You know man, you’re right! I’ve been a nothing-but-electronic-music fan for about 12 years now, and I’ve been to a ton of live electronic music shows. It’s always a challenge, because you want everyone to be able to come together and jam to an act, but electronic music is largely a producer’s medium - polished in the studio. Any live performance (instrumentals, etc) generally comes off as forced and subtracts from the show. That being said: how do you have a “performance” when everything’s canned?
The Happy Mondays had Bez, Chemical Brothers have themselves being crazy, Aphex Twin got people to dress up in bear costumes and shave themselves on stage, but by far the best electronic show I ever saw was Fischerspooner, because they totally deep-sixed the whole musical performance ruse and played a dat, and then had huge dance numbers costumes, etc for a /real/ performance art show (and in a comical moment even made a show out of revealing that even the singing was lip synced, which of course everyone loved.)
*That* was fantastic. /Acting/ like you’re manipulating the music live? Not so much. It’s an unimaginative cop out so that you can go on tour. (And that explanation is patently bogus, you don’t get that far in a show without realizing your shit is unplugged, what a joke.)
If you’re going to charge people money to put on a show, then at least have a show to put on. If you’re just playing a dat then be honest about it, and make people laugh with you when you, i don’t know, set your fake computer on fire and the music keeps playing or whatever.
November 20, 2008 at 1:41 pmAlso: pretending to play live is an insult to the pioneers who actually tried to figure out how to do so, and acts like Orbital that actually pulled it off, so that going to a show meant you got something different than what you could hear at home. I’ve never liked any Justice tracks I’ve heard, and this revelation doesn’t really come as a surprise. What a bunch of hacks.
November 20, 2008 at 1:44 pmA fine point Jason.
Speaking of giants of electronic music, has anyone here seen that soundclash between Soundmurder and the Bug???? It was a Peel session that I heard while I was in college and it was absolutely mindblowing.
PS Fischerspooner RUINED Wire’s “The 15th.”
November 20, 2008 at 1:48 pmThis picture seems more unfortunate than damning.
Justice makes some tremendous dance music and has some great videos. I’m a fan, Amanda! I think most of the people in the community are past the rabid devotion stage that accompanies some people’s musical lifestyle, so the generalizations about any particular musician’s fanbase don’t hold much water.
I’ve found myself the odd person out in the crowd at shows before; I believe this phenomenon should be celebrated as a testament to the boundary destroying capacity implicit in many styles of music.
That said, I’ll never go into Eyebar again, Gavin Holland or no.
November 20, 2008 at 2:03 pmHaha. Milli Vanilli!
November 20, 2008 at 2:15 pmi stand by “career ending” …. a much less discerning audience threw away ashley simpson for the perfectly normal use of a vocal track on snl. even though she’s still on life-support, her career is nothing like what it was … deserved or not, Justice’s every move will be followed by snarky blog comments and an obligatory “justice caused an internet controversy when” on every print media record/concert review …. however, fitsum’s multi-city look-alike tour is fucking brilliant and would probably be a great career move
November 20, 2008 at 2:49 pmthis blog post is the male equivalent of friday’s fashion controversy/cat fight.
November 20, 2008 at 3:06 pmY chromosomes rule
November 20, 2008 at 3:15 pm@Dan
© ® ™
Sorry to disappoint you guys - but while this may be a ‘gotcha’ moment it is not indicative of their live performance. I toured with them - watched them set up, heard their sound checks, watched them perform from on stage. During Justice ‘live’ shows they manipulate a wide number of devices, including computers and CDJs. Although they had similar sets, they altered them every night (15 shows in a row). There were no shenanigans or ‘hitting play and then playing along.’
I can’t speak about the event where this picture was taken, but the photo only ‘proves’ something about the exact split-second of the shot, nothing more.
November 20, 2008 at 3:37 pmThis discussion is really stupid. Who cares?
November 20, 2008 at 3:53 pmSarah Palin’s handlers do not approve of this sort of “Gotcha” journalism.
In other news, Sarah Palin has been tagged by scientists and then re-released into the wilds of Alaska.
November 20, 2008 at 3:55 pm“Y chromosomes rule” hahaha
November 20, 2008 at 3:59 pmgood. maybe somebody will shoot her from a helicopter.
November 20, 2008 at 4:02 pmThe only thing career-ending in this photo is the tattoo on homeboy’s left forearm. The simplistic 3-D rendering of the basic geometry of a crucifix looks like something that a 3rd grader at an Evangelical elementary school would doodle during math class.
November 20, 2008 at 4:15 pmMakes me think of that picture of Bush with googles:
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Dubya/images/bush_goggles_caps_on_300.jpg
seriously regardless of whether that’s true or not, it’s time people realize how electronic music is produced and played out. Chromeo’s sound during concerts is 95% from the laptop, the remaining 5% are the few fancy stuff they do with their instruments. Cut Copy has the same issue, in a lesser extent.
Most of Daft Punk’s live show is just playing around with effects. As to their productions, they basically pillaged underground disco and just added some vocoders
(see: http://palmsout.blogspot.com/2007/02/sample-wednesday-27-daft-punk.html )
Justice retains some very strong, original productions.
November 20, 2008 at 4:51 pmPS: frankly it’s so easy doing a live show now with ableton, why would you bother to fake it?
November 20, 2008 at 4:54 pmSo you’ve got fun shows with DJs using sequenced shit and a million boring shows with “real DJs” who suck. It’s a wash either way a lot of the time. Whatever gets these dudes back in the studio and off the myspace music tour or whatever is more my concern.
November 20, 2008 at 4:54 pmWHOA…WHOA. you cannot put Justice and Daft Punk in the same category of performance. The “daft punk of late” that Burns refers to farrrrrr surpasses anything Justice has ever done in terms of bringing an incredible live show and display to the masses - and you are a lucky son of a bitch to have seen them in ‘02. We all saw the pictures floating around (http://digitaldj.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/daft_pyramid.jpg) which offer up different triggers and “jazzmutant lemurs” to control the music (no matter how programmed in advance it is and how much of it is actually manipulated/created live) combined with the ridiculous well timed and well organized visual aspect that forms one of the greatest live shows known to man.
having said that…technology and the way electronic music/dj music is done these days is ever changing. Alex English of GBH in NYC hates on anyone who uses Serato as playing a DJ’s Guitar Hero and then folks like Surkin use midi controllers and a combo of Reason & Ableton together, with completely preprogrammed segments of music, the mixing and effects are the only live part.
but yeh this picture is pretty damning, I still love seeing Justice live if not for the entire atmosphere, the music as well, but I’d love them more if their sets went beyond an 45min to an hour! for $200K+ a gig (that’s their reported quote for big shows/festivals) the audience deserves it…
hollah!
November 20, 2008 at 5:59 pmhaha funny how people love to hate on the popular artists.
exhibit #1 - cable still plugged in, same night
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/50/l_059ae27caa1e41d59eda41933fcd9354.jpg
exhibit #2 - cable fell out.. oops.. hey whats going on? its no working
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/38/l_181cb926c2524330a26dc77c0920dbb7.jpg
exhibit #3 - oh thats what happened, let me put that back in
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_2500108bb9a7432cb6c9070e225508bc.jpg
let’s get back to the basics:
i believe i hit on this before on the girl talk thread - for those who didn’t bother blogging that up read below:
GT must have learned something in his college marketing class - his target market is everyone. I give props to the guy who sells out 930 club and sonar, two venues separated by a measly 40 miles. He knows how to get people motivated and throw a party… as for dj’n, that’s a different story…since he really isn’t one. It’s not much different than seeing surkin or boys noize live. Two great producers who manipulate their you see thirty threes ‘live’. If you want a live show go ask the dismemberment plan to re-member themselves. If you want a sweat filled workout of a good time, go see GT.
who really cares about any of this anymore? if you’re at a show having a good time, living your life, doing it big… that should be the only thing that matters. who cares if the dudes shit is unplugged if everyone is going nuts. it should be about FUN.
If you’re hating on justice not performing quote un quote live, then so be it. they’re selling records, making money, and seem to be having a good time.
I wanted to hit on a few things before I sign offline because I will be on work travel and my blackberry internet browser sucks:
durkl(s) need haircuts and a shave.
g. holland needs to bring back his retarded snow suit looking outfits.
what ever happened to the other n. riche djs? did holland just take over?
if they were/are fake button twisting and fake slider sliding every night, i’m a bigger fan.
shits hilarious.
November 20, 2008 at 7:01 pmIf it’s any consellation this is from one of their dj sets, not one of their “live” performances. And Justice LIVE isn’t literally them playing all the instruments, but it IS them cueing everything up and manipulating sounds but not literally recreating them live, if that makes sense. It’s all rehearsed and it’s practically the same every night but with tweaks here and there. I don’t understand what the big deal, electro is about the experience which is why you can go crazy for a huge SHOW like Daft Punk or for some dude with a laptop like Girl Talk.
If you don’t like Justice, awesome. Hate takes up so much energy.
November 20, 2008 at 7:10 pmNooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
(say it ain’t so.)
November 20, 2008 at 8:03 pmJustice doubters just got PWNED by hipsters_hatin and my man cullen stalin.
November 20, 2008 at 9:19 pmWe spoke to them after the set. Those boys were smelly! They said it was jazzmutant shiz with Live. I thought their show was cool and great visually but Ed Banger dj crew in Berlin (1/08) were better.
November 21, 2008 at 12:10 amis justice really sending people out to message boards to defend their honor (i’m looking at you, mr. “i have far to many citations” hipsters_hatin) … shouldn’t they be spending their time marketing their leather jackets like REAL musicians
also, the “people at their shows just have fun” excuse is baloney. people have fun watching crappy 80s coverbands at college bars, that doesn’t mean we should send Two White Crew on a 80 city world tour
November 21, 2008 at 2:10 amNo.. I dont know them at all… but the evidence speaks for itself. Chris Bruns said it in his first sentence “caught serious flack on the comments for being a jealous hater, bitter DJ, etc.” thats exactly what he comes off as. As well as every other person who jumped on the “OMG JUSTICE IS SO CHEATIN!!!!!!!!!!!!” bang wagon… only to get proven wrong.. and now what.. UHHHH … WELLL……. THEY STILL SUCK!!!!!!!! BOOHOOOO!
Hahahaha cry it up while you play to 60 people with your hawaiian shirts! TRUE ARTISTRY!
November 21, 2008 at 3:06 am“people have fun watching crappy 80s coverbands at college bars, that doesn’t mean we should send Two White Crew on a 80 city world tour”
i dont see the connection here? justice produced an album people liked all over the world, that is why they have the ability to go on world tour, why would an 80s coverband be able to do that?
also, if some 80s coverband was able to get fans all over the world, then yes, i would say - go on tour, if you have fans that wanna see you!
November 21, 2008 at 9:20 amJust go back to the title of this post, “Justice is a Fraud.” Man, you were quick to call them out. But who would dare to call you a hater for that?! Heavens to Betsy! Do some research before you go calling out international acts “frauds”. I wish Hipster Hatin had been the second post in this chain so all our time wouldnt have been wasted reading .
And in the end, it’s just electronic dance music, so who really gives a shit what happens live.
November 21, 2008 at 9:45 amwow - anytime i need to cheer myself up about anything, i come to byt and read comments - hehehe
November 21, 2008 at 9:52 amthe reason you are seeing that is because xavier is the brains behind justice and does virtually all of the production and live dj’n… gaspard has to look like he’s doing some work.. heh. woops.
November 21, 2008 at 10:50 amya, the 80s cover band analogy didn’t quite work …. i was pretty drunk last night. but i still think the “why do you have to hate, people are having fun” argument should join “douchebag” and “gay” in the pile of useless message board comments
November 21, 2008 at 10:54 amThis is hilariously now Justice’s default profile picture on Myspace.
November 25, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Maybe it’s the new wireless version. LOL
November 20, 2008 at 11:20 am