So I originally sent this to Svet to use in our new Rise and Shine feature...
Svet "That should be a post in itself, we have not had any Cale atheist propaganda in a while."
Me "I got more I can add too it as well"
Svet "I'm sure you do"
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Here goes.
This guy calculated that God has killed, according to the Bible, 2,391,421 people. But that only counted the passages that specically gave a number. Which means that part where God got peeved and flooded the entire earth and killed everything (including babies and puppies) except for a handful of incestuous alcoholic believers, didn't factor in. So he has tweaked his numbers using some educated guesses, for example: The Seventh Plague: Hail |
Wikipedia says the Egyptian population to be 3 - 5 million at the time the Exodus supposedly happened. So if maybe 1% of the Egyptians were in the field at the time, that would mean that about 30 - 50 thousand would have been killed by God's hailstorm. I used 30,000.
Again with the killing of innocent animals. By the way, did you know that if you commit bestiality, according to the bible you should be killed. And... wait for it... the beast too! It's like, the sheep just got raped by farmer Issacand now you have to add to the suffering by slaughtering the poor thing? But I digress... so, his final (conservative) number, for the amount of people God has killed:
33 Million
Harsh.
For more: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html
Next up, Sam Harris needs your help! The author of the bestselling books The End of Faith and Letter To A Christian Nation has started a new organization called The Reason Project. Which is, according to the web site "a 501(c)(3) charitable foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society."
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The first thing they've done, besides have a web site that says that, is inherit Steve Wells' Skeptic's Annotated Bible, Qur'an, and Book of Mormon. This crazy fucker has spent a decade highlighting passages notable for their historical inaccuracy, internal contradictions, scientific errors, absurdity, injustice, cruelty, sexism, intolerance, etc. (he also flagged the good parts too). So they're going to take this and expand on it, renaming it "The Scripture Project", and getting a bunch of religious scholars, historians, scientists, and other qualified people to continue to annotate these texts on a Wiki. But apparently there were a few technical difficulties in getting everything converted over so they need some people to donate a couple hours over the next few weeks to clean up some of the formatting. You know, do a little copy editing for Satan. |
Instructions and relevant links can be found here:
http://www.reasonproject.org/index_ee.php/scripture_project/
On last thing, before I get off the pulpit of sin.
In order for non-profit houses of worship to keep their tax exempt status, they have to follow a few rules. One of these is that they are not permitted to intervene in elections by endorsing or opposing candidates for any public office. It's no joke either, it's been held up in court and churches have lost. Same with Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network and the late Teletubby hating Jerry Falwell's Old Time Gospel Hour, they even had to pay penalties for electioneering.
The Alliance Defense Fund (whose web site is down at the moment... satan?), a big time organization started by a bunch of zealots, is trying to push "Pulpit Freedom Sunday" on Sept 28th. They're actually encouraging preachers to break federal tax law. When other non-profit organizations can play by the rules, why should these guys get a free ride?
That's where the non-sectarian, non-partisan, champions of the separation of church and state Americans United comes in, fronted by the Reverend (yes, he's an actual practicing minister, separation is actually good for churches too) Barry Lynn. Founded in 1947, they're one of the few religious watchdog groups that actually gets shit done. In response to "Pulpit Freedom Sunday" they've started their own little sub-site where you can get more info, report violations, and hopefully donate some cash to the efforts. Yes, they actually take fundamentalists to court and win. The Religious Right HATES these guys almost as much as they hate the gays.
http://www.projectfairplay.org/
Dewy Chafin a preacher in the Church of the Lord Jesus in Jolo, West Virginia holds two fistfuls of rattlesnakes during snake-handling church services in 1991. Dewey has been “bit” by poisonous snakes over 116 times, treating his wounds only with prayer. Photograph by Bill Snead.
Have a good weekend, I'll see you in hell with all the Jews. And raped sheep.
Previously in Misc/Awesome:
- 12/28: Terrible Boyfriend/ Girlfriend Generator.
- 12/1: The John Waters Advent Calendar-it starts today
- 11/28: It Chooses You: All I Want for Christmas is Everything from Miranda July's Pop-Up Shop
- 11/3: Things I'd Move to Minnesota For
- 9/6: PHOTOS: Maloof $$ Money Cup
- 9/2: PHOTOS: Chantilly Model Train Show
- 9/1: Libby's List: 5 Things I Want Right Now...
- 8/22: PHOTOS: Best Friends Day
- 8/10: PHOTOS: Lawn Mover Racing, Eastern Seaboard Regionals @ Bowles Farm
- 7/26: Special List: Things the BYGays Want Now That We Can Marry In DC (and NY!)
God loves a cheerful giver.
That guy was originally casted for Indiana Jones but Steven Speilburg was bummed that he had no fear of the viper so Spielburg gave him the boot and casted Mr. Harrison instead. How awefully sad! I personally would've enjoyed seeing this guy run away from a gigantic boulder!!!!
~holstein
What? God can do no wrong. Those people must have deserved it.
"cast" not "casted". the latter isn't a real word.
God hasn't even beat Stalin? He better get with it. Stalin's got about 43 million to his name (please no one repeat the 20mil figure until you've done some more research).
but on the other hand if God was going to allow Adam and Eve to live forever, and then punished them by capping their lives and saying they'd die eventually, as well as all their children, then God is indirectly responsible for the death of everyone who has ever lived.
But Stalin's still got him on direct deaths.
Or since God asked them not to eat that fruit, and they went ahead anyway (i.e.-disobeyed/sinned) wouldn't sin be the cause of all death???
Re: Stalin
fair enough, but Stalin didn't claim to love all those he killed so God's reign of terror packs a little more punch for me.
Re: sin
God created all, god knows all; god created sin, god knew they would eat the fruit, therefore still his fault. As for after the fact, what about the babies he drowned? Was that sin?
Cale told me to have the crab and corn chowder last night and it was "divine."
My wife and her family left their church which they had been members of for decades going back to it's opening as a house of worship for 10 farming households. The reason was the new pastor was insisting that the congregation vote for Bush (the pappy) from the pulpit and wouldn't stop mixing his politics into the sermons.
Both true stories.
Oh - and my parents are excommunicated from the Catholic church for getting re-married. They have an official letter from the Vatican.
Also true.
In the beginning God didn't love everyone. He pretty much hated everyone but the Israelites. He commanded them to rape women, cut open pregnant ladies, and dash the babies against walls.
If you believe that old fairy tale I mean.
Right.
Actually, according to some, he didn't love everyone later either. Jesus' original message was for the Jews only, to unite them, thy neighbor actually means thy fellow Jew. It wasn't until Paul, who had been kicked out of Israel, came along that message of Christianity was universalized.
a whopper of cock and bull...whopper of cock and bull.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God Bless America? No, no, no! Not God bless America. God damn America! It's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating its citizens as less than human!"
Cale, you said "God created all, god knows all; god created sin, god knew they would eat the fruit, therefore still his fault."
Through your explanation of things, that would make everything (good or bad) that ever happened (and everything that will happen) God's fault . . .
Basically, I don't see how you can blame God just because he knew it would happen. Obviously, people have the ability to think and act how they please and sometimes there are consequences.
Eliza, what I was really getting at is this idea that "God works in mysterious ways", it's how rational people deal with modernity chipping away at their core religious beliefs. "Jesus died for our sins, God made the ultimate sacrifice" well... no. God didn't have to send his son to earth and have him tortured. He could have saved our souls in a much less unpleasant way than mutilating his own child. If you believe in a creator of the universe who has a direct personal relationship and loves a few organisms crawling around one planet (of maybe 700 sextillion) who is also omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, you have to finally come to the conclusion that all the cruelty and sadness and dead children is essentially God's fault. Sure he gave us free will, we do this to each other, but he knew how this little scenario would play out, since he knows all. ....also what's up with sticking us on a planet that get's pelted by asteroids every 50 million years killing everything, full of animals that can kill us, and natural disasters that wreak havoc on plenty of innocent children and good Christians. This isn't sin causing this anguish, God created a death trap and put people he supposedly loves in it.
Ok, I'm rambling, look, I know it's tough to let go of God. It took me many many years. But I believe in you, I really do, you can live a life without the thought police, and once you do, you realize the very fact that this is the only life you will ever live, makes it all the more precious, and makes it all the more worthwhile to make those around you happy.
This is a good way to start. Look in the mirror. And say this out loud:
"I believe the creator of the universe wrote down a list of moral imperatives on a stone tablet and gave it to a bunch of people in the desert. One of the instructions was this: 'You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.' The creator of the universe felt that that commandment was more important than say, 'don't have slaves'"
I bet you'll feel a little silly afterwards.
What if, and i'm only speculating, the whole universe and what ever created it is running on an infinitely giant and convoluted system of "Trust me, you just wouldn't understand" and everything that happens has a reason that is utterly inconceivable at the level of intelligence/perception that the average human is on.
It's like a math buff telling me that that, under specific conditions, 2+2+5. I say clearly that's wrong because i can only conceive that when i put my two fingers by each other they make four.
He/She, however knows the complicated math that goes into the proof of this.
I know this probably sounds goofy, but i like looking at things from many perspective and, that being said, this may or may not be a personal opinion of mine.
(sorry, just read this cuz of chuk)
ok, cale. you say what isn't. then what is?
your answer: no idea
my answer: no idea
incorrect answer: just because
Chuk - The “we’re not smart enough to understand” is a common Christian apologetic excuse. The problems I see with the argument are numerous. First of all that’s not what ancient scripture purports. It’s pretty specific at times in how the world works. A handful of people in the desert 2000 years ago believed they were privy to the secrets of the universe. As the cruel mistress of modernity has chipped away at this dogma revealing it to be woefully ignorant and intellectually confined within a very narrow world view, we fall back on the easy out of “god works in mysterious ways”. It’s a cop out for Christians who feel silly by doing what I suggested above, but have too much guilt or fear to really let go.
Chuk/Eddie - My argument is specifically against the idea that the God of Abraham or Allah or Zeus has ever directly interacted with human beings or altered the laws of physics. It doesn’t exclude the idea of a non-personal God. Do I think one exists? No. But that’s just a personal hunch vs. anything worth arguing about. Speculating on what we cannot know is one thing. Declarations of truth about these matters are another. It’s ok to say “just because” until all the evidence is in. But until then, imagining an afterlife where I get to hang out with dead loved ones and play a harp (that’s actually in the bible) is just wishful thinking, and believing that the creator of the universe prefers certain people over another is just dangerous.
i don't believe you can make declarations of truth either (ex: there definitely is no higher power/whatever you want to call it) and i'm not backing any specific belief, believe me, but i am saying that you can't believe that everything just appeared out of nowhere. that's silly.
p.s. i'd like to think you are agnostic and not atheist because being atheist means plugging your ears and not being open to possiblilties of the existence of shit you have no idea about. that's silly.
"Agnostics are just atheists without balls."
-Stephen Colbert
Appearing out of nowhere seems a bit less silly than 7 days and talking snakes no?
they are both equally silly.
lol @ colbert - i love that guy
not true, though
look what I found!
"p.s. i’d like to think you are agnostic and not atheist because being atheist means plugging your ears and not being open to possiblilties of the existence of shit you have no idea about. that’s silly."
That's an absurd appeal to ridicule if ever I heard of one. Atheism means the lack of a belief in supernatural deities. You can be an Agnostic Atheist. Agnostic means you make no claim to knowledge where as Atheist means you do not BELIEVE that a God exists... Or in the case of Strong Atheism you state that a God definitely does not exist.
I for one do not discount the existence of something undetectable at the present time, hence the agnostic part. But I DO NOT believe in the existence of the Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Eastern or Polytheistic Gods, past or present, described in any religion or mythology, hence the Atheist part.
"i am saying that you can’t believe that everything just appeared out of nowhere. that’s silly."
Yes it is silly. But the Big Bang does not describe the universe appearing out of nowhere or from nothing. It merely states how the universe came to be in it's current state. Whatever form it existed in prior to it's current one is an unknown that we may or not at some point in the future, discover.
And as a side note, there is usually a claim made about the existence of a soul or other self. Think about this: Alzheimer's. People who suffer from this debilitating condition lose memories, sometimes intermittently, sometimes permanently. As a result, they change as people. Think also about people who suffer cranial trauma as the result of an accident. Someone who loses a great deal of long term memory, forgets that he is married and has kids, and therefore changes as a person due to the loss of several years' worth of memory. Since he cannot remember those events, his pattern of behaviour is altered and his relationship is destroyed as a result. Those memories are gone.
The point here is that who we are as people is directly linked to our physical brain, and any damage to the grey matter in our heads WILL affect us as people. And of course, once brain activity ceases, that's it, game over.
As harsh a reality as that is to Theists, it's a reality nonetheless. What we do while we're alive and our brain is functioning is what gives us meaning. Our lives here and now are all important, because we KNOW that we're here and we KNOW we're alive here and now. What happens to our personalities after our brain stops functioning is debatable (even given what I stated above although I suspect my opinion is clear from the remarks), but it doesn't take anything from what is happening to us while we have functioning bodies.
It's sure as hell a lot less silly than making Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib.
Hey y'all, just poking my head in to say that God doesn't exist, and the pro-theism argument that "The world couldn't have come from nowhere" doesn't really make any sense, because in that case, where did God come from? Is it turtles all the way down?
Yay! I love the renewed interest in this post.
@NoToPseudoScience - very well said, we should be friends. You bring up a good point that isn't heard often in these sort of debates. Let's say someone has brain damage and those memories are gone forever, when they go to heaven does God magically add those memories back in? Or what if someone has brain damage and loses the part where they believe that Jesus is the son of God and then they die, do they go to hell on a technicality?
If anyone is looking for laughs, check it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/28/AR2007042800831.html
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Ann Druge grew up in a Catholic family with eight children and the haunting knowledge that a ninth was stillborn. Because the baby, named Mary Ellen, had not been baptized, she was denied a Catholic burial.
"When we would go to the cemetery . . . we'd always stop where they threw the dead flowers. That's where the little one was buried," said Druge, 80, of Storrs, Conn. "My mother and father were very upset every time. She was stillborn, so she couldn't be buried in the consecrated ground. We were told she was in limbo."
After three years of study, a Vatican-appointed panel of theologians has declared that limbo is a "problematic" concept that Catholics are free to reject. The 30-member International Theological Commission said there are good reasons to believe instead that unbaptized babies go to heaven, because God is merciful and "wants all human beings to be saved."
...
Because babies are guilty of no personal sins (only the taint of original sin), the thinking went, surely God would not consign them to perpetual torment. But because the church teaches that baptism is a necessity, theologians also asserted that unbaptized babies could not enjoy eternal life in God's presence.
To faithful Catholics, the Vatican's pronouncement does not mean that limbo once existed and suddenly is abolished; it means there are grounds for hope that unbaptized babies are in heaven -- and have been all along.
---
OMG THE BABIES ARE ACTUALLY IN HEAVEN!!!
Couple of astonishing things going on here:
- A living, breathing woman was forced to suffer prolonged grief and psychological trauma because of the arbitrary pronouncements of a far-away religious authority
- Grown men spent /three years/ "studying" the "issue" of what happens to babies after they die
- A mainstream publication (WaPo) published a story about this utter nonsense with no sense of irony, and no judgment of this woman's tormentors.
As I get older, I've tried to get rid of my utter hatred for people who self-righteously try to foist religion on their fellow human beings (via brainwashing of children and praying on psychological weakness in times of distress), but I still can't shake the idea that the devoutly religious are actually insane. Why do we still pay these institutions any respect? They should at least be relegated to the sidelines (hey - LIMBO!!!)
OMG THE BABIES ARE ACTUALLY IN HEAVEN!!!
Now I can rest.
Also, I meant "preying" not "praying". Ha!
Jason: Fail:
"A living, breathing woman was forced to suffer prolonged grief and psychological trauma because of the arbitrary pronouncements of a far-away religious authority"
No. She was not forced to. She is an insane person who believes in fairy tales. Ridiculous fairy tales.
By the way any reading of the bible would tell believers that no one in in Heaven right now (other than a handful of people God pulled up there) and won't be until the 2d Coming.
The idea that you die and GO to heaven immediately is not supported by scripture which maintains when you die, you die, and not until the 2d coming will the dead rise and go to heaven.
Motherfuckers need to be reading II Thessalonians and shit.
Ha, I remember reading that WaPo article when it was published and sending it to my mom, I just googled and found the email:
How can any rational human being take this organization of pedophiles seriously after this jaw droppingly illogical display of delusion. Over a billion people on this earth base their belief system around a handful of silly old white men who arbitrarily decide the fate of dead baby souls. In the year 2007. Am I the only one that wants to run home and scream into my pillow?
Speaking of dead babies, 25-50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Doesnt that make God the biggest abortionist of them all?
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She asked for clarification on the last part and ended her email with:
The greatest miracle I have ever known was the birth of my two babies. All I know how to do is love and respect you unconditionally, for who you are, and what you believe. I hope you love me enough to do the same. Love always and forever, Mom
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So then I replied with:
Miscarriages are usually caused by random genetic problems. My point was that if you believe that God created man, then he is responsible for the way we multiply. His system ends up spontaneously aborting (a medical term) 25%-50% of all fetuses. Therefore, God, in terms of the most conservative numbers, has aborted approx 26,614,091,917 babies over the course of homo sapien life on earth. In reality it is probably twice this much when you factor in disease, environment, etc. Thus, I find it ironic that Christians bomb abortion clinics, successfully lobby for the end of funding to stem cell research, or block contraceptives to AIDS ravaged nations, all in the name of God.
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Plus some mooshy I love you too stuff cause I do love my mom. Even thought she's insane.
Just to clarify, Michael: I was being a little breathless, but the "trauma" I was referring to was the lack of closure allowed someone because of stupid religious pronouncements. They buried her sister away from the family plot, where they throw all the dead flowers (trash). Because the baby had the temerity to be born dead. Granted, her parents bought into a system that demands that kind of capricious disregard, but she's a victim of that too. Whatever, I don't even care about this woman in particular, but this kind of subtle abuse is inflicted everywhere because of this inane shit. A point on which I'm sure we agree.
Case in point: the permanent psychological trauma inflicted on teenage girls by our society's obsession with arbitrary virginity (via Libby in R&S):
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30353377/
@Michael - yeah, what Jason said. Also your statement "No. She was not forced to. She is an insane person who believes in fairy tales. Ridiculous fairy tales." shows a lack of understanding or more likely sympathy on how people are indoctrinated into religious belief. That’s like saying when this woman was 20 years old somebody came up to her and explained the ideas behind Christianity and then she decided to believe or not. Which is obviously not the case with many people. The child’s mind has evolved to be easily molded in the early years, and for good reason, but the downside is the subsequent and very real brain washing done by parents, religious leaders, etc.
Cale - you're right. No sympathy. I was taken to church twice on Sundays, once on Wednesdays and any other days when there were events, Sunday School, church service, choir, VBS, retreats, etc, etc until I was about 15 years old. There was no more indoctrination that could be done.
I, being of brilliant intellectual mind and absolute curiosity however, realized it was all a bunch of bullshit.
If I can anyone can provided they want to or have the least inkling of inherint curiosity to discover things on their own.
And if they lack the curiosity to do this then they're defective and shouldn't breed anyway.
Either way I could give a shit less about whether someone suffers trauma because a bunch of cocknecks made up a bunch of rules and convinced people that an invisible being told them to.
All of them are delusional and should be eradicated from the planet - and that includes practicing Jews, Muslims, Christians and anyone else who believes ghosts give a fuck about how we operate as humans.
God damn with all those billions gone this might be a decent place to live.