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> END Geek

i think Dakota missed the opening acts, Future Islands and Teeth Mountain, but you can see photos of them too here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joshsisk/sets/72157618413834765/

Teeth Mountain, especially, was really good i thought. Expansive soundscapes of multiple instruments and cool, dreamy light projections.

tons of chicks

Of course there were more dudes there. Dudes like better music than chicks. It’s a fact, sukkah.

sure, but that doesnt make it false. I’d say it holds true about 90% of the time. Of course there are outliers to any broad pronouncement. A woman might say, “no, not me, my record collection isn’t lame.” She doesn’t know it, but…she’d be wrong (90% of the time) according to the laws of nature. I don’t make the rules, that’s just the way it is.

its a left brain/right brain thing. music is mathematical and math is a left brain function. in general, guys have stronger left brains.

also guys are usually way cooler than chicks. girls only care about makeup and ponies.

Definitely a lot more dudes who were way too sweaty and shirtless. Also, the crowd was a lot younger than I expected, which made me in my mid-twenties feel really old.

By far the best part of the show was his ensemble. I’ve always thought there was no reason that electronic based music couldn’t be played live and he did just that very well. Great percussionists in particular.

I actually found some of his group participation stuff to be distracting. First off, it was extremely campy, which is OK, but also kind of annoying. Secondly, it kind of killed the momentum of the show, I didn’t necessarily think the audience should be doing the gauntlet to Baltihorse, but whatever. Overall, a pretty good time, but I left a little disappointed.

Very cool, young crowd. I’m 3-0 and felt fine though.

I didn’t really notice that there were more guys than girls.
I suppose that’s cause the girls that were there were really cute and I spent my time – while listening to the music, of course – checking on them.

i don’t think you need to understand how the sound was exactly made to appreciate it.
that is the kind of logic people who HAVE BEEN in (95% of time shitty) bands since high school use.

One can appreciate art without understanding the full technique behind it.
And music is art.
The experience is fully subjective and therefore maybe a little tainted even if you spend time analyzing WHY a certain sound IS a certain sound.

Anyway-just my 2 (girl) cents.
Plus-95% of males in America are the reason why Nickelback/Creed/Whatever else are popular so your generalization actually applies only to a teeny percentage of the population.
In that teeny percentage of the population that appreciates “challenging” music (is dance music even supposed to be challenging? is music being challenging even a good thing?) I’d say there’s equal amounts of men and women.

being in a shitty band since high school tends to make your musical taste terrible. I say this with love.

Applause to nihilistic pleasures’ response because that’s pretty true; also I was going to say the same as Svetlana did about dudes popularizing crap like Nickelback. Ugh.

I do like ponies though. But who doesn’t, really?

if this is real (which i doubt) its particularly stupid to say about dan deacon and the futureshock/baltimorecrunk/dance-punk whatever movement which has many many girls and women making music and DJing and promoting shows and making art and being awesome at shows. If there was a lot of dudes at this one…so what?

now there are some music scenes where there arent a lot of chicks–garage punk, death metal, conscious hip-hop, but those are not particularly innovative musical styles. If anything I’d say there are more ladies in the experimental music or weird-indie scenes than there are in other kinds of rock (except like Alt.Country but what is that even these days?).

In conclusion women can and should play music and be involved as much as possible and stay out of areas where they actually are naturally deficient like comedy jokes and Presidenting.

I’m kind of surprised at how narrow-minded some of bros are getting on the comments section. And I’m not even saying that to suck up to the girls – y’all know I’m just as critical as the next guy.

Some musicians, male and female, have no idea why the chord shapes they play or the guitars they use produce a certain sound. For certain types of music that’s appropriate. Other musicians, male and female, obsess over everything from mic placement to where the instrument/amp was manufactured. It’s unfair to generalize – I’ve had the pleasure of working with people who were clueless, and others who were comically obsessive.

The better question here is why aren’t MORE girls picking up guitars, drums, synths, etc and making music. And not just for the sheer novelty of a girl band making music, no no no. There are so many girls who come to shows who have amazing taste in music and potentially could offer something new and different. Why aren’t they. Or rather, why aren’t they being encouraged to do so? There’s girls out there writing up shows, taking photos, designing x or y or running this/that. Why not playing music?

youch! i’ll just go to the facts at this point:

Salt-n-Pepa
M.I.A.
Lauryn Hill
TLC
Monie Love
Santogold
Erykah Badu
Yelle
Nelly Furtado
Missy Elliott
K-Swift
Ladybug Mecca

I’m handling the grind for another 6 hours today… let me know if you need me to keep populating this list…

Yes, girls are less likely to start an inferior band. That’s because they tend to be more self aware.

I just took a listen of this Deacon fellow. Some of it is a poorly recycled late 80s new-agey bullshit and no more. The rest plays like shitty this or shitty that. Reject this crap.

As legitimate and well thought as the above arguments are, there’s something about them that just doesnt hold water. Last I checked women have become presidents and prime ministers, fought and died for those countries where they are allowed to be part of the armed forces, and even gone into space. And yet starting a band, or learning production or DJing is still beyond reach? I think the perceived barriers of entry are smaller than they appear – especially in contrast with the aforementioned achievements.

patrick, stop sucking up to the girls. jjjjjjjkkkkkkkk

i don’t think the issue is that women can’t play instruments. it’s that you just don’t see as many women at shows that feature more experimental and noisy bands. that being said, i think this is also partly a DC thing. if you go to a city like baltimore or brooklyn, you’ll find more women at those shows than in DC. DC doesn’t particularly love experimental/noisy bands (that’s why you see most of those kind of bands playing at velvet lounge and DIY spaces). so, i think it’s kind of a combination of DC not loving on experimental/noisy bands and women in DC not loving those bands either. i don’t know what the reason is… i don’t want to generalize and say that men take the more analytical approach to music and that women base their taste more on emotional aspects, because that’s just too broad of a generalization. i’m sure there are many, many factors.

Yes, the girls are less inclined to behave grossly. That’s because they are more self-aware.

The Deacon man strikes me as utter rubbish. This precisely the reason behind the shortage of chicks at his shows.

No, having more girls (or dudes) at your show in no way speaks to the quality of your music. This is indeed not a matter of the proportion but the quality of girls (or dudes) at your show that speaks to the quality of your music.

Deacon’s audience, for example, composed mainly of tools.

@Patrick: sure we can. And there are certainly more women out there performing and consuming (complex) music than there are female presidents or soldiers. The question is why there aren’t more.

It’s not just a perception issue that women are under-represented in the music business or as consumers of certain type of music (although it’s also true what John said about experimental/noise in DC). And while they are slowly diminishing, there are still clear barriers to entry.

It’s interesting was Jessica said about love for music and this being the only reason for women to be into it – because it is so true. The rewards for men to be into music are so much so higher – on the producer and consumer side. Since men are more likely to succeed in the music business (for the above-mentioned reasons), they are also more inclined to invest more into their music career (time, money, effort). As consumers, men get not just rewarded with the joy they experience (that’s the same for both gender) but also with peer appreciation and admiration. You are considered cool if you have a huge record collection and have vast music knowledge; and the coolness factor increases with your nerdiness. Getting into music is a good strategy for guys to compensate for and deal with insecurities. It gives guys something to network with other guys and something they can show off with girls. A good record collection is the S class Mercedes Benz for indie guys, if you like. Music is the secret weapon that a guy has to impress a woman. Girls who are nerdy about music are just that – nerdy. Or, worse, are often perceived as intimating when they prove equal or even superior knowledge or taste – or are successful as dj’s, producers, performers. So what I’m trying to say is that guys have simply more incentives to get into music and this is why there are more of them.

Also, it’s a cultural and historically grown barrier. Music has been for centuries a male dominated business. This, btw. also holds for arts in general. Until today there are more successful male artists (and designers) than female, and the successful ones are better paid. Is it because men are presumably mathematically more inclined? I don’t think so.
I’m not whining, just stating my opinion on it. Like Jessica, I’m happy to enjoy music for just what it is. But I do think it is important to be aware of these things in order to overcome them. So that the next time the all-female band that comes around gets a bit more support or the over-weight chick with the acne gets the chance to dj at your event or play in your band.

@byt: please, please add an edit function to the posts.

nah, I’m the peace-loving type.

Women with big record collections are fucking hot.

“And there are certainly more women out there performing and consuming (complex) music than there are female presidents or soldiers. The question is why there aren’t more.”

I am not so certain the last part of your first statement is true.

As to the second – who really gives a flying fuck? Is there some kind of mandate that there have to be equal numbers of male and female performers? Or is there some part of some of the women here who feel somehow inferior because there aren’t more female performers? Maybe we can make a law that record contracts must be given out according to population percentages? Yay.

Talent will break through regardless of gender. Trying to hold some kind of measuring stick up is idiocy at its finest hour.

Of course we can get into discussions in the realm of prodigy but that’s sure to get people all fightin’ and cussin’ because prodigy isn’t taught. It’s just there. There are a few child-prodigy female instrumentalists, but not nearly as many as there are male. Why? Has absolutely nothing to do (well a teensy bit) with being exposed or pushed or encouraged. There are almost no female composers in the realm of Rachmaninoff, Beethoven, etc. Why? Again, goes to the prodigy aspect.

Anyway, the bigger issue is who really gives a fuck and what kind of person is it that actually wants to sit around and worry and measure? If girls want to play music they will. No one’s holding them back. Now, it -could- have something to do with what is marketed to girls in their preteen years – beautiful perfect teen girls or pretty perfect boy bands – that leads them to believe somewhere way deep inside that only “Princesses” get to be musicans, but that’s another discussion, too. Boys don’t get that pretty pop nonsense Hanna Montana shit shoved at them.

BUt what irks me is this whole 50/50 mentality as though there should be 50/50 doctors, 50/50 judges, 50/50 guitarists, 50/50 mechanics and so on because that’s about where the gender split is in the US.

Talk about retardation…

Mozart was successfully instructed because he was a born genius. I did mention there is a bit involved with a prodigy being pushed, but really that’s a very very small part of it. All the instruction of a regular 2 year old in the world isn’t going to produce a Mozart who wasn’t born a prodigy.

Also your “old days” comment is way off base. See all those dedications the composers put on their compositions (Fur Elise, for example)? That means the piece was written for that specific person – typically a student. Many of these composers students were highly accomplished female pianists.

here’s an entire list of female composers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers

Heard of some? Sure, maybe. Heard of most? Not likely. Is it because men conspired to keep their music unheard? Or is it because their compositions just aren’t up to what listeners want to hear? You can decide.

There are definitely some powerful female pianists performing today, just as in yesteryear. Stop talking out of your asshole.

np – that really was an eye-opening comment. I hadn’t thought about it like that, but, yes, I think you’re right. It’s like maths – boys are actively encouraged and rewarded for pursuing maths, whereas girls are not, hence higher education maths tends to be overstocked with men, who favor the boys, etc. – a feedback loop ending in a swordfest.

The real eye-opener for me, though, is that, yes, I use record collecting as a borderline-ocd method of managing social anxiety in the context of going to shows and clubs to pursue something that I genuinely love (music) armed with uber-geek knowledge as protection or faux-authenticity. I wonder if I wasn’t anxiety-driven, would I care so deeply about individual bands, labels, producers, etc., or would my taste be broader/shallower? Great post, I’ll be thinking about that one for a while.

As to Michael, there’s a book out about how prodigies are myths – like unicorns and the tooth fairy – that we tell ourselves to make us feel better about not being excellent. Neither Tiger Woods nor Mozart showed extraordinary aptitude – they were both driven by maniacal parents and coaches towards excellence by being force-marched into practice 24/7/52 from birth. Big difference. But keep holding on to your conservative attitudes – skill doesn’t derive from dedication and practice, it’s a gift from God!

t|rex – all right – explain this one to me. If I pick my favorite three from your list – M.I.A., Santogold and, oh, I dunno, Salt-n-Pepa, look at their records, look at the song writing credits. WTF? 80%, 85% are written or co-written by other people, usually men. So, even when there are notable female singers, the natural question is, gosh, I wonder who wrote their songs? But, I never wonder that about male-fronted bands. Obviously, there are counter-examples (e.g., Lauryn Hill), but, I remember when I heard Galang for the first time, rushed out and bought the cd single, and was bitter and disappointed to find out that Steve Mackey of Pulp and Justine Frischman of Elastica co-wrote it. I felt cheated. Santogold’s “Creator” – same feeling. Yet, I have never picked up a record with a male singer and found that the female guitarist/drummer/bassist wrote the songs. Go ahead, find a counter-example. And once you realize how hard that was, you’ll understand my point that much better.

When the same thing happens with male-lead bands – they have their big hit with someone else’s song (um…Naked Eyes, Dead or Alive, Simple Minds?) – they experience derision and dismissal (even though two of those three were better before they hit with their big cover tunes) and accusations of inauthenticity. With female-fronted bands, we just expect it, and, in fact, it’s shocking when women do the writing themselves (think the Long Blondes – Dorian wrote those spine-chillingly assertive and sexy lyrics for Kate to sing – why?).

I hate the feeling that women in bands are sock puppets for some producer or some other guy behind the scenes – and can only hit with someone else’s songs or a cover tune (c.f., “Killing Me Softly,” which itself was written by two men).

Now, we can crawl down into some, “women are more collaborative and sharing” argument, but, seriously, WTF?

And, I’ll note that you didn’t mention any indie bands.

So, in sum, np, awesome, t|r, explain please, michael, read more.

I’m a chica, and I’m in a band. It unintentionally became 3 girls and one guy. Now every girl and and guy I speak to make fun of me, saying it’s a dyke band. It’s not, really not. My band mates and I are normal chicks and he’s a normal dude. I pay attention fashion and am interested in being ladylike. SO why is it even people who hear I have a band, even girls, automatically label me as shit and a novelty when we havent even released music yet??? I swear my boobs dont get in the way of playing my guitar at all. and I know my music shit, I know it more than most “bro” bands. I mean I just want to play shows and make music, why do I have to get judged right away?

P.S. Julliard, Chicago School of Music, etc, etc are full of brilliant pianitsts who are not prodigies. They learned it through talent and hard work, but when a prodigy comes along it’s quite apparent there’s a difference. Prodigies also usually only need to be coached, not taught. It’s just born in them.