byt Obama supporters UNITE.

hey michael - you’re right - lets just give up on ever trying to make the world a better place and complain about it like a little bitch….. thats much easier than actually making an effort to do something positive.

if you truly believe a McCain Presidency would be the same as an Obama Presidency then your sadly mistaken…. my suggestion to you is to stop trying top look cool by saying “fuck it” and actually try to do something to change what you are upset about in the world. i just don’t see that happening though - its much easier for you to just complain about whats wrong while you sit on your ass doing nothing about it. Obama is far from perfect, but he’s the only hope we’ve got right now to try and start heading in the right direction.

i’m obviously not getting through to you michael….
i don’t feel like wasting my time trying to explain why i support obama in detail, but it comes down to the fact that he represents a new generation - a younger generation. i also feel like he will give us at least a chance to improve our image throughout the world, and start trying to build relationships with other countries instead of destroying them. i get frustrated by politics as well - it seems like sometimes nothing will ever change - but that attitude is what is killing this country. everyone feels like they can’t make a difference, so why even try. i’m inspired by obama because he’s getting people involved that normally don’t care - if we can get more people to at least try to do something to change the world for the better, then i think we will be able to really make progress.

sorry i attacked you personally - i guess i’m just fed up with people being so damn pessimistic around here - but that’s no excuse. i’m a designer, not a politician - but i do care about politics because i’m sick and tired of the way we have been acting as a country for so long. you might think i’m foolish for trying to support what i think is a great chance to change our direction - but that is what i believe in - and i don’t think its foolish. when you insult something that someone cares for deeply its pretty much the same thing as a personal attack, and thats probably why i got so upset by your comments.

i’d still like to know what you propose we do to fix the situation we are in. either mccain or obama will be the next president - can’t you see the difference between the two of them?

Thanks for the apology.

The difference? No. I mean on a teevee level there is an appearance difference (one is black and one is white, one is old, one not so old, one is a good speaker, one not so good, one has loads of experience, the other none) but you have to look behind the scenes at who is pulling the strings. You have to look at voting records - not what they claim on television, but what they actually do. Does it not bother you at all that nObama quit his first Senate term to run for President? If I’d voted for him as a Senator I’d be fucking pissed.

Both of them get the same money from the same people. Nothing at all will change in this country until both Republicans and Democrats stop thinking the party line and instead investigate voting records and elect third parties. Nothing. Will. Change. You mention people are excited - that was seaid about an internet screamer recently as well. Remember him? No, not Ron Paul. And they are excited because they have the memory of excited children: Again - what changes ocurred after the Democrats swept both houses for the first time since when? 1994? Was that the year of the Republican takeover? I can’t remember. I do know what they’ve accomplished in the past few years though:

Nothing.

So pardon me if I don’t think a party-sponsored politician is going to do jack shit.

Obama, while eloquent, strikes me as someone who knows very little about much of anything - he can’t act without handlers telling him what to do. Again research his reaction, statements, and positions on the Georgia thing. And what happened the last time a President was elected who didn’t know much and relied on handlers to inform and advise him? We got the Bush Administration.

deyv, you said “Obama is definitely the best option for me as someone who love’s this country and world”

what plan has either one of these candidates said they have for ol’ mother earth and what interest groups do they support that show they care about the world?? nothing from either about alternative fuels, manufacturer product regulation as it pertains to energy/fuel use, etc.. nothing solid. just lip service. words mean nothing; look at who they support and who supports them.

stick with ‘designing’, graham.

Deyv: ” all you’ve done is hide behind “they’re all liars” which is yet to be seen ”

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. No it hasn’t.

Also “getting engaged is crucial to fixing any problem and given the candidates, their platforms - positions - history and ability to create change Obama is definitely the best option ”

You’re getting engaged in the goddamned status quo. You’re getting engaged in the political machine - the one they allow and WANT you to be engaged in.

“ability to create change” He’s proven this? How?

No it isn’t a ridiculous comparison Graham. When you have someone who is inexperienced they must rely on outsiders. OK, so Obama doesn’t have the Washington bad habits (whatever that learned behavior is —and except he does, check his state politics and lobbyist record) but guess who will? The people he surrounds himself with in order to get the jobs done - his secretary of state and so on and so forth.

Whatever. You’re sucked in by what they want you to believe and you believe there’s any difference between an R and a D. That’s fine, it’s just not for me.

for the record - my opinions and behavior are anything but normal… if you knew me, i think you would agree.

Now Graham, why would I want to fuck up a perfectly good drinking evening by discussing politics?

And we’re right, we aren’t going to change anything, which is another problem with Americans - we get entrenched and we stay there.

ironic, i appreciate your diplomatic style, but on your points:

first - it’s definitely bad to only consider militaristic options, but sometimes you need more than just dialog. guess how the u.s. got it’s independence. guess how hitler was stopped. it wasn’t pleading that did it.

second - hard-core conservatives and hard-core liberals are both crazy wack-jobs. bad argument.

third - neither one of these guys will say no to money whether it comes to milking old energy sources for all their worth or whether big money dedides it’s time for new technology. and they have proven that.

fourth - you may have a point, but it isn’t average america that the dem party typically looks out for, it’s lower class. and it’s not that cut and dry and it’s definitely debatable. this is a country that allows you to reep the benefits of your own hard work. you are allowed to get rich by working harder or coming up with better ideas. lazy dumbasses shouldn’t get rewarded for slacking. but the upper class should not get extra break, either. you should be taxed on percentage. period. make more - pay more. make nothing - get up before 10 or 11.

fifth - it’s really up to congress. both of these jokes will tell you what you want to hear. and what about congress? wtf have they done so far? shit.

you do bring up some good discussion points, though.

eddie - don’t spew that crap about how everyone has a fair chance to make it in this country…. i agree that the welfare system needs major help, but if you can’t see that some people need assistance getting above the poverty line, then you really must be blind. saying that “lazy dumbasses shouldn’t get rewarded for slacking” sounds awfully white and republican of you - maybe you can get a job on mccain’s staff.

awfully white? that sounds racist. was that to make you sound cool?

no, graham cracker (you *are* white), somewhere between the far left and the far right lies a sane system that doesn’t cater to rich, tax loop-hole finders nor people who don’t do anything to better themselves and their own economic situation. unfortunately, both the far left and far right have plans for very rich and very poor.

there are exceptions, obviously, but the sad truth is that many slack-ass losers take *major* advantage of a system that is put in place for those genuinely in need. i am middle of the road. i agree with your first suggestion. i am through trading comments with your ignorant, non-spelling, self-proclaimed “crazy” ass (you said it in the shorts post, not me). see you at the cat, big boy.

Eddie, thanks for the props on my points, but I have to take issue with some portions of your rebuttal.

“first - but sometimes you need more than just dialog.”

I agree, but military intervention should be the last option. For Bush, at least until he started to see the light and began talking to N. Korea and Iran in the 11th hour of his tenure, it was the ONLY option. If the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem begins to look like a nail. Resolving our conflict with Iraq in the manner that he did has been tremendously destructive both for our country (esp. our economy and for tens of thousands of soldiers who are either dead or will never be the same due to loss of limbs and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder), and Iraq. Furthermore, even the CIA says that we are less safe now in the aftermath because of all the destabilization that has occurred in the region and the antipathy that our policies have engendered.

“second - hard-core conservatives and hard-core liberals are both crazy wack-jobs.”

Well, it was those liberal wack-jobs that gave us Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade. I’ll take that brand of wackiness over anything that Scalia or the late William Rehnquist gave us any day of the week.

“third - neither one of these guys will say no to money whether it comes to milking old energy sources for all their worth or whether big money dedides it’s time for new technology. and they have proven that.”

While both candidates have paid lip service to political reform, Barak has given back tens of thousands of dollars when it turned out it came from federal lobbyists. On the other hand, he has taken money from state lobbyists. It’s probably not a meaningful distinction, but at least he is doing more than just paying lip service to his promise to not be controlled by special interest groups.

“fifth - it’s really up to congress. both of these jokes will tell you what you want to hear. and what about congress? wtf have they done so far? shit.”

Don’t forget that the Democratic party controls Congress, but not the presidency. That was even true when Clinton was in the White House. Just wait until the Democratic Party controls both before you pass judgment on the current House and Senate.

Michael, what expertise has McCain gained from all of his years of experience as a politician? He recently referred to the nation of “Czechoslovakia.” Well, maybe such a country existed back before 1993, but we need someone who understands the world as it exists today.

And the list of McCaine’s gaffes goes on and on, but no mainstream media outlet has ever bothered to report those gaffes until now as he has come under greater scrutiny as the presumptive nominee of his party.

I respect the concern that both candidates are somewhat centrist, but a careful scrutiny of McCain will show that he is quite a bit further to the right than Barack.

Also, on a purely selfish note, I would like to travel to Europe and have the people there actually like me because I am American, rather than tolerate me even though I am American.

Barack has a shot at making it cool to be American again. McCain has no chance whatsoever.

al - pretty petty and hypocritical of you.

for someone who claims they don’t like when people tell others that they have made mistakes in spelling and the like, you looked a little too hard at my post for errors.

you got me on reap; it was a boneheaded mistake.

but “they’re” instead of “their” - no. it was intentional. “milking old energy sources for all their worth”. the energy source’s worth.

“dedides” was an obvious typo, not a misspelling, smart guy.

and that is the only thing in this post that you thought was uncalled for? not someone telling someone else they had a “sad existence” or saying that they were acting like a “little bitch”? way to take a stand, nancy.

even worse, you posted on this thread only to correct me, you hypocrite. “i don’t have an opinion on the candidates”? if you don’t, then maybe you shouldn’t have posted on this thread at all. nice work showing that you have no balls, mr. triple spell-checker.

GO NADER, GO!

wow - looks like i missed a lot yesterday after work.
eddie, i’m just gonna go ahead and stop now before i end up hurting your feelings in front of all you online buddies.
i don’t know you, and you don’t know me…..
just remember - we’re all wrong sometimes. you seem to be the type of person that has a hard time acknowledging that.

please don’t hurt my feelings, graham. i just couldn’t take it in front of my “online buddies”. easy, tough guy.
and i admit when i’m wrong. i was wrong to engage in conversation with you.

ironic - i don’t agree with everything you say, but i appreciate your style.

I stand by my overall assertion that criticizing others on their spelling is not constructive.

But I apologize for my own criticism. In retrospect, yes, it was completely hypocritical. I should have left it at the first sentence of paragraph 2. Sometimes even a triple-checked post is posted too hastily.

I never said “I don’t have an opinion on the candidates.” I absolutely do. I’m always happy to share them in person. What I actually said was, “…nor am I going to share my own opinion regarding the candidates in this forum.”

Perhaps posting something only tangentially related to the discussion is in bad form as well, and my entire previous post was a bad idea. One can’t unring a bell.

What I think is creepy as fuck about this is that we’re (a) devoting artistic energy to beatifying the candidate as opposed to addressing the direct demands for social change we want out of his presidency and (b) we’re transforming the presidency into a brand icon.

That shit is weird. A lot of white people basically took a black man and used him as a canvas for their own dreams. Which is what white folks seem to have been doing with black masculinity since race was crafted.

I absolutely do not use Barack Obama as a canvas for my own dreams.

That being said, just how do you think he’d look all decked out in fancy cowboy duds?

I’m gonna have to go with pretty awesome. Yep, pretty freakin’ awesome.

This thread makes me sick & makes me laugh at the same time.
keep it up…
No hope no future……. & the USA is screaming!!!!!