Wire returns triumphantly to DC and 930 club this Saturday which gives us a chance to catch up on this awesome feature John Foster did on Colin Newman a last winter that I bet most of you have not read yet-ed
From his days bringing art to the punk scene in the 70s with Wire to his current projects (the third coming of Wire, Githead with his wife Malka, and his Swim record label), Colin Newman has remained one of my favorite songwriters. I will do my best not to fawn over him too badly. Here goes:
BYT: How does the writing and recording process differ between working with Wire and in Githead? (You have long and involved relationships at the core of each although I believe you have only slept with members of Githead - this isn’t Fleetwood Mac after all.)
I took a decision at some point back in the 90’s not to do any more solo albums. The last one “Bastard” came out of the same collaboration that produced all of Malka’s albums & the Immersion stuff. This was really because I prefer to collaborate and Malka comes from a background (Minimal Compact) which was much more collaborative in it’s basis than wire was historically. In a way Githead is an extension of Malka & I’s work together. We go back years with Robin so he’s almost “family”. Max is of course from Minimal. The core of Githead is really the fact that Malka, Robin & myself can just stand in our tiny garage studio & just play. It takes a lot for someone to be able to be in a confined space with a couple and be able to work. In fact Robin brings a very light energy and we all end up laughing a lot.
Wire has a very different history but over the last few years I’ve tried to bring the element of collaboration which I’ve always had with Malka to the table in Wire and i think this is finally bearing fruit. There is much more to say on this but I think it would make much more sense to say it after the release of the album and in a more obviously Wire context.
BYT:Your sense of melody has been intact no matter what instrumentation you have pursued. What inspired your use of synths and computers or symphonic players for certain projects versus a more rockist approach such as your more recent work?
It’s all about context. There are two kinds of music makers as far as I can see. On the one hand you have traditionalists for whom preserving a tradition is more important that passing trends. People might update the tradition a little but this path is really all about authenticity, history etc. On the other hand you have people who relate more to the general context of creativity in any given time. Americans tend to be much more obsessed with tradition than Brits. I’ve personally had enough of people’s dubious claims for authenticity (I’m not just talking about folk music here, “urban” , heavy metal & punk amongst many others are just as guilty of this). If I get exited but what’s going on in music in general I’m influenced by it. It’s just as simple as that.
BYT: You are one of the more distinctive rhythm guitar players in post punk history (and not recognized for it much like Bernard Sumner in New Order) but I noticed you primarily sang last time I saw you live - how much guitar are you playing these days and how do you treat it differently than in the early years?
I’m wondering when you saw me last? I mainly play guitar & sing live with both Wire & Githead! I didn’t improve technically as a guitar player in 30 years (laughs) I suppose now that stuff like “On The box” are out there people can see more which parts are mine. To this day Bruce gets credited with parts I played, but hey that’s just how it goes. There are Githead tracks which have elements of electronic production on them which everyone assumes Robin did… I always try to somehow harmonically subvert with my guitar playing. There’s a track on “Art Pop” (All Set Up) where chord structure of the verse & the chorus are exactly the same but a 2nd guitar comes in on the chorus which subverts the first tricking the ear into thinking something changed. My songs always have less chords in them that anyone thinks they have.
(Not a question but you, Sumner and Joe Strummer are my favorite guitarists based more on the motion of your playing and the natural extension of your creativity rather than any note or chord structure. Something you likely just can’t help and I adore it - haha.)
BYT: What influences your more hypnotic work? You seem to alternate between pop structures (Heartbeat, Map Ref, &Jury, Kidney Bingoes, Art of Stopping) and repetitive shifting compositions (Round and Round (most of Commercial Suicide and It Seems to be honest), Drill, Lifeloops.) When do you latch on to a melody and let it repeat and when do you build a support structure around it?
In certain moods it’s all about repetition. I’m not big on complex structures. I’ve always stuck to the “no middle-eights” rule. If you’ve got one good bit why ruin it by doing another bit that’s less good? There’s no real rule, just what works.
BYT: You have mastered the art of lyrics that create interest but rarely give away a specific story. What process do you go through when composing lyrics?
I do at times describe my lyrics as “stream of consciousness bollocks” :) I’m not big on narrative and love the idea that things are on the edge of meaning but somehow don’t quite reach focus. Not all my writing is like that. There’s stuff on “Art Pop” which is pretty pointed but I’m in general fairly reticent to go into precise meanings. People should take from it what they will.
BYT: What made you decide to create your own label as opposed to working within another roster?
This is really about self-production. By the early 90’s we had developed our studio to the point where we were beginning to develop stuff that could be released with no more work save mastering but the record companies we knew were not interested in working like that (technically if you haven’t paid for a production then you don’t own it). We were getting frustrated. Specifically a label in Israel wanted to put out a Malka solo album as other members of Minimal had enjoyed considerable success there but only wanted an album produced in a traditional way. The album we made (Rosh Ballata) was considered too radical a step so in the end we put it it ourselves and licensed it to a different company over there. We didn’t have much idea what we were doing but at that time (’93) there was a new generation of labels starting up in London based very much around the self production method and mainly electronic music. It was a great time and within a couple of years we had a roster of artists and were able to release stuff on a fairly regular basis but by the end of the 90’s that scene was really effectively over partly because there were just so many self-produced electronic productions on tiny labels that mainly weren’t very good that the market died. Also the millennial cusp saw a strong return to rock and it was much harder to self produce rock records in the type of studios people had (now of course it’s much easier).
BYT: What was it like being on Harvest and Enigma when the labels were pushing folks that weren’t like-minded? What happened with Enigma? (I had heard rumors of mob involvement and money laundering for years but they seem to have gone into the wind…)
These are just record labels. Enigma, rumours, not going there…
BYT: You have managed to be cutting edge through four decades - what do you think keeps your work relevant?
One thing that I always bear in mind is that each generation needs to set itself apart from the one preceding it so its music will almost certainly be diametrically opposed to that of the previous generation. So in order to remain able to operate one needs to have pretty broad taste. But the other thing you need is passion. Contemporary has to mean something and not just be something you give lip service to.
BYT: You seem to take in more current music than a college student (no sad crocodile on your ipod - shame shame) how in the world do you have the time AND what makes you so restless in your listening habits at a time in your life when most folks have settled into a comfort zone of reliable music (no matter how trailblazing they might have been in their day.)
see above. FYI I always had broad taste in music but it’s always very specific. I guess I know what connects the different things I like whereas I’m not sure others would make those connections.
BYT: How did you envision the recording industry changing as a young artist - versus how it has in hindsight?
I didn’t have a clue in 1977. I just wanted to put out classic records and be on the cover of the NME. I had no concept of how to make money out of it. I think the big change in the last 30 years is that popular music is now more “comoddified” and marketed than ever. There is nothing wrong with selling music per-se but so much stuff you don’t really want is so much in your face it’s not surprising that the “industry” is in panic about falling sales and the fact that “the kids” download it all for free. It’s the industry’s fault for rendering so much music worthless by over hyping it. I could give many examples but take someone like Lily Allen. Nice girl, interesting clothes & come on but the music is shit. I was on the tube a few months back and said to the person sitting next to me that “Lily Allen is a poster girl for a scene she doesn’t belong to” and the complete stranger sitting opposite said “my God you are absolutely right!” (I should point out that strangers NEVER talk to each other on the tube and he got dead embarrassed about it after). She’s been sold as some kind of outgrowth of the grime scene when in fact she does cheerful and rather slight ditties about some bloke who shagged her or similar. People who didn’t know anything about grime would assume that grime is some kind of “Notting Hill urban” folk music done by slumming posh white girls. It’s fucking outrageous!
BYT: Do you still deny any memory of almost running over a young John Foster with your tour van in the alley outside the old 930 club during the Ideal Copy tour (haha)?
Ha! I remember they put the boxing on at the end of the show (I think ??)
BYT: Does it bother you that allmusic.com keeps referring to your vocal style as “hectoring?”
I’m that shouty bloke from Wire and it’s all downhill from “Pink Flag” :-)
BYT: As irritating as it must have been dealing with the Elastica situation was there a part of you that was happy to see that the songs were so sturdy as to create a hit for someone else when re-packaged? (Sort of like Tesco’s selling your grandmother’s pie recipe - everyone deserves to enjoy a tasty slice even though it is wrong that they swiped the family secret.)
On that level of course it also caused a lot of people to check out the source (if you look on Last FM “3 Girl Rumba” is Wire’s most played song). My annoyance was & is about the money. EMI music & Elastica got paid an absolute fortune for the use of “Connection” in the Budwiser ads during the Olympics that year. They only used the riff, not the song (my riff, almost certainly a sample). Carlin Music (who own the publishing rights to the 70’s Wire material) never properly pursued it. I’m also annoyed that Justine Frishmann (another slumming posh girl) claimed she spoken to me and I was cool about it all. I’ve never met her or spoken to her. Actually Elastica were deeply un-cool in the mid 90’s. Brit-pop was mainly retro rubbish.
BYT: You have dealt with breaking new artists to reissuing classic discs with swim and pinkflag - where do you see the distribution of music headed (side note, what are your thoughts on the radiohead giveaway?)
There are good & bad signs. I think the Radiohead this was quite a clever strategy on one level but I think it will backfire in the long run because the public see it as a gimmick. Obviously the download thing gave them a way to build up a big mailing list (a very important tool in this day & age) but in spite of the fact that you could get it for nothing there were still a huge number that preferred to download it for free off of whatever bit-torrent or similar source they use normally use. In other words they couldn’t even be arsed to go to the radiohead site and give an e.mail address to get it free legally. What they did after was interesting in that for the physical release they’ve basically done a P&D (production & distribution) deal with Beggars. I think EMI are in shock. There is a kind of mirror (at a much higher level) of what Wire is doing with pinkflag and our distributors Cargo & Revolver. However in the end it proves the point that if you’ve got a known brand you don’t need the traditional routes of the industry to sell your wares. The problem is that it becomes increasingly difficult to break new stuff without a big budget behind it. Swim nowadays only releases Githead records because nothing else sells enough to even cover the costs of manufacturing. Even on a pretty basic indie level you need a budget or a lot or time and commitment to really get something to take off.
BYT: The new Wire ep seems to remind me of an update and splicing together of your collective solo work from the 80s - particularly He Said for Graham and Commercial Suicide era for you - any thoughts? Is this a conscious re-inventing much in the way the “Send” material was for the Pink Flag mode of thinking?
Not intended! When the album comes out I think it will become much more evident what’s afoot.
BYT: Knowing the strong feelings about visuals you all have individually - is it almost impossible to reach agreement on packaging a Wire album?
Nah, we get Dave (Coppenhall) to do it :-)
BYT: What is in store for the U.S. fanbase in 2008?
From Wire an album and some shows (TBA both timing and venues - there are some quite interesting things under discussion)
From Githead possibly some shows if we can find a way to do it it and not lose money!
NB - both githead.com & pinkflag.com have news pages worth checking with every now & then. Both also do occasional mailings (when there is important news to share) but you need to sign up on the site.
