My post-Foals Thursday gave me a trifecta of minor misery. I started the morning by unexpectedly getting three stitches in my tongue (short and boring story of which I will spare you but it did scare the dickens out of me once I realized I was mumble mouthed following the procedure and I have my BBC interview today!!!!! Crapstix. Luckily I woke up my usual ramblin’ fool.) My grumpy meter edged up.
Lunch would bring a soft chicken pot pie at Pat Troy’s in Old Town but my dining homies got stiffed with a crap fried chicken salad (microwaved chopped tender on the ol’ iceberg) and then the capper: today’s special – PT Sliders. The “sliders” ended up not being 4 individual burgers but rather a single patty melt – on rye with onions and everything – cut into four corners!!!! Granted this was hilarious but disappointing at best. My grumpy meter rose like the afternoon temperatures.
When I returned to the office I finally had a chance to do my 10-minute spin around cyberspace and caught some of the Crystal Castles flap (like the dork that I am I saw John Darnielle’s blog before visiting pitchfork – gotta have priorities.) I had a gut reaction to say the least.
“It’s called STEALING asshole!” I bellowed at the computer.
I probably have as good a chance of the computer paying attention to the message, as it would seem I have with the band.
For those not up to speed, here is the short of it:
band sees image they dig of Madonna with a busted eye. They decided to use it (as is) on t-shirts and flashing in their stage show and then it adorned their debut album cover. Some bs about getting the image out there and hoping to find the artist and work something out came from their camp but who cares. I know nothing in the music/entertainment business should surprise me at this point but this still dug into my grumpy man craw. What kind of person thinks any part of that scenario is okay (or legal?) If you read this and think, “hey, what’s all the crying about” please check your morals; if you can find them. You might need to call the cops, as they could be waiting for you at the local precinct.
This is stealing plain and simple. Not just stealing but profiting from your theft none the less. Any label worth their salt has legal on staff or at their disposal in order to vet this kind of thing. (Did you know the original cover for the Postal Service album had a JFK figure on it that had to be nixed? Totally changes everything for the better in the end.) Somewhere along the line, like let’s say in the beginning when they couldn’t figure out who did it, someone should have said this is a shitty thing to try to do. No matter how much you like someone else’s stuff it isn’t okay to just take it. That’s what makes a (barely) civilized society.
Let me simplify it for the band. If someone dug one off your songs and then took it completely as is and put it on their album under another name, took money for it and left you none the wiser, you would have a complete fit when you found out. No way would you be cool if they came up with some cock-a-mamie crap about “hoping to find you” once it was out there. And even if that were true it would still be ILLEGAL!!!!!!
The fact that they have finally discovered the work belongs to one angry artist (Trevor Brown – who has done tons of music packaging so it’s not like he is adverse to it or an unknown quantity in the industry) and they are offering an all or nothing rights deal after the “he saids” have run out stinks all the more. I am sure everyone has lost their temper at some point and the entire thing is a sticky mess at this point but it shouldn’t be. I know a thing or two or twelve about intellectual property law and how it operates in the industry and all Brown needs a fair to middling attorney and this is done.
Two things are (Crystal) clear: Brown would win a judgment with no trouble at all if it comes to it and the band (and it seems their management and some of the labels – selling records with the image as collector’s items!) is morally vacant assholes.
Grumpy meter through the roof!
I totally agree with you. They also use the Chanel logo as their own, although I don’t know if they use it much beyond their myspace page. Morons.
April 25, 2008 at 4:13 pmThey’ve definitely gone overboard with that image.
April 25, 2008 at 4:22 pmdude it is good to be passionate! maybe you should go to law school. in the alternative, you can use drugs to alieviate grumpiness,
April 26, 2008 at 1:34 amThe truth is they had the artist’s permission in 2006 and always gave him credit.
Timbaland stole a Crystal Castles song. I’ve never heard CC complaining about it. Watch this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_bj6IhZbYFY
April 26, 2008 at 4:56 amHey Liz - too late for me to go to law school. I will stick with the slightly less luxurious lifestyle of a designer.
On the 50 Cent song (featuring Justin Timberlake natch!) that disc has a mountain of cleared samples and Timbaland is listed as “producer” not “writer” on the track. As a wholesale bed it wouldn’t be listed as a sample but I doubt the label would risk not paying publishing to them or they would be suing (and never working with) Timbaland. I also assume that CC would have brought up any music industry injustices against them by this point in the argument. Until anyone hears otherwise it is safe to assume the band has been compensated (probably substantially give 50’s sales and it being a single.)
No one in this issue has said that the band was crediting Brown starting in 06 - just that Brown contacted them at that point. No one seems to dispute that Brown only wanted $300 for the record cover and for them to stop making t-shirts either yet neither came to fruition. To be honest - I don’t care about any of it for the argument’s sake - It was WRONG/ILLEGAL from the moment they used an image that they did not create or commission/liscense at the onset and everything I have written can be hung on that point.
April 26, 2008 at 10:35 amYou wrote: “If someone dug one off your songs and then took it completely as is and put it on their album under another name, took money for it and left you none the wiser, you would have a complete fit when you found out.”
THE BAND DID HAVE THEIR SONG RIPPED OFF, were not paid or credited, and when interviewed about it they said THEY DO NOT CARE.
On the subject of rock t-shirts, stealing art is the norm. Hatebreed have Iron Maiden’s art on their shirts. Deathset have the logo from Ghostbusters on their shirt. Justice have the logo from the Bible. Crystal Castles were using Madonna’s face. They had their friend trace a picture from a flyer they found, because the flyer was covered in text and not usable in it’s original form. They tried paying the artist but the artist decided he would rather get publicity from this, instead of getting paid. Whatever, who cares.
April 26, 2008 at 12:56 pmThey haven’t been compensated for Timbaland stealing their music, and he has stolen from small bands before because he knows they can’t afford to sue him.
And Trevor Brown gave them permission to use the image and was paid, then later became greedy and said he wanted more money.
You probably shouldn’t make assumptions as you had about an issue you’re ignorant on, and insult people you have never met by calling them thieves, which is not true.
Ok, for all those who are crying injustice here, let me ask you where you get your music, where do you get your software, for that matter, where did you get the Trevor Brown jpg you are using in this article? Did you pay for it? Did the Insound pay for it, how about Death By Sexy, or for that matter The Rock & Roll Hotel or The Blackcat? I mean really you keep shouting ILLEGAL, I mean come on, what is this 1990? Hasn’t sample-culture taught people anything? I mean do you really think Crystal Castles are making bank? Yes they are popular, but not really outside of indie culture, and indie-dance culture to be more specific. Brown should take what CC offered him, like now, after he has even more free publicity, I mean yeah if he is a baby he should go get a lawyer. CC are punks, in a way most hipster pizza-party disco studded belt chuckle-heads couldn’t even imagine. Punks, as in the piss people off by pushing boundaries, by fucking up the program, breaking the rules. Look up Sherrie Levine, or for that matter look up the history of hip-hop. Yeah theft is “wrong” when you steal someones bike that’s wrong, but re-purposing an image, getting it out there, I think thats awesome. CC music stands on it’s own, they totally would have made it to where they are now without Brown, it’s too bad people have such a stick up their ass when it comes to stuff like this.
April 26, 2008 at 4:09 pmIf (a big if) their is no publishing arrangement for the lifting of large portions of the CC song going to someone other than Timbaland I would be shocked that the label hasn’t moved to rectify it and Timbaland learned nothing from losing to Janne Suni for the same issue. You are correct on calling me out in some fashion on the metaphor and we can all agree to put Timbaland firmly in the “asshole” category as well but let me be clear once again:
Anything past the initial copying of the image from the flyer and subsequent sales based on that artwork is UNETHICAL AND ILLEGAL and all else is irrelevant. If you want to defend Crystal Castles you will have to justify it from that point.
There is a long history of “appropriating” images in artwork and I am from the foremost generation of designers from that school of thought so I am VERY well versed in the legality and ethics of the issue and I sign contracts all the time with record labels so it’s not second hand knowledge. THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATION. It is theft - no change in the image - no change of context or addition of further imagery. There is absolutely no leg to stand on here.
You can follow a rundown of sampling law basics in my review of the Beastie Boys “Paul’s Boutique.” Required reading (this means you Timbaland!)
Final tally:
Foster: righteous yet ultimately correct
Crystal Castles: thieving assholes
Timbaland: thieving asshole
By the way - I love the reference of the cross being the logo for the bible - haha.
April 26, 2008 at 6:53 pmCrystal Castles had an artist re-draw the Madonna image. The image on the flyer was not usable, it was covered in text.
So in theory, Trevor Brown traced a famous photo of Madonna, and then Crystal Castles hired an artist to redraw the Trevor Brown tracing.
WHO FUCKING CARES.
April 26, 2008 at 7:05 pmCome on - Brown obviously cares as do the design and art industries in general. Tracing an image for printing purposes is a far cry form the re-contextualization Brown performed.
Crystal Castles say they saw the image on a flyer covered in text but it should be noted this image is unadorned as the cover to a book on Brown’s work where they could have lifted it and known who did it all along.
April 26, 2008 at 8:40 pmBy the way - comments from people using real e-mails are always appreciated. Chickens.
April 26, 2008 at 8:41 pmAt first the blog patrolling “Friends of CC Party” were saying Trevor Brown should be fucking thankful for all the publicity gained from Crystal Castles graciously using his work. Now they are all crying that Brown is getting too much free publicity out of this. Brainwashed dolts!
April 26, 2008 at 9:14 pm“Justice have the logo from the Bible”
don’t think God, Christ, The Holy Spirit, nor the Trinity, as its own separate entity, ever trademarked the cross as a logo/design, nor copyrighted it as art
the following is not meant to be construed as legal advice since it’s posted as a casual comment on a blog forum:
“Crystal Castles had an artist re-draw the Madonna image. The image on the flyer was not usable, it was covered in text.”
while the new re-drawn image is a completely different copyrighted image, it doesn’t past muster as a derivative work, when it’s substantially similar to the original, the creator was aware of the original’s creation/existence in the marketplace, and the image is being used for a commerical purpose
as for Trevor, he might have waited until CC started raking in record sales and sued them for compensatory damages, but then he’d have to get around laches barring undue delays to bring a case, so probably better he got on it sooner rather than later
April 27, 2008 at 9:29 pmGayest thread ever.
If I could I would delete the entire thing.
April 28, 2008 at 11:14 amaw, is your hand getting sore Michael?
bengay/icy hot should do the trick
and rest, always much needed rest
In an interview in Vice magazine in France, Crystal Castles are now claiming that it’s not even an original Trevor Brown drawing. They found the image on a flyer in 2006 and asked the artist to redraw it for them……..???……..I wonder how the drawing was published on a Trevor Brown book cover several years before it was created!
April 28, 2008 at 9:55 pmGod, you are so confused, they found a flyer with Trevor Brown’s uncreditted tracing of Madonna and asked an artist to retrace it. They did not say it was not based on Trevor’s original.
April 29, 2008 at 6:32 amNO. Your brainwashing is incomplete.
They are now saying Brown made the drawing for them in 2006.
http://vice.typepad.com/vice_quebec/2008/04/paris—crystal.html
In any case, your own insisted upon version of events is irrelevant. It’s copyright infringement. Deal with it.
April 29, 2008 at 6:54 pmTrevor Brown agreed to let them use the image at first, then became greedy, don’t forget that. All the self righteousness on here is a bit much. Post-modernism is taking a lashing from kids who steal music and movies all day long.
It’s truly become a fucked up world.
http://www.drownedinsound.com/release/view/7730
You can find other posts made by Trevor Brown in 2006 which prove he never gave permission.
April 30, 2008 at 7:21 pmit’s not theft when this guy gave them permission then turned around and deleted his myspace with all the messages. i can see right though this guy. waht a joke
May 5, 2008 at 11:42 amThe band may be responsible for stealing more than their art. There is a flourishing debate going that they may have lifted some of their music as well.
May 6, 2008 at 1:25 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kb-J6NFBss
May 9, 2008 at 9:01 amwhy would anyone admit they were riped off to make Crystal Castles worst work. The album is worlds away from this old crap.
get what you can get I guess right?
Actually Brown claims that they SAID they were sending him the money he asked for, but that he never recieved it. He says they’ve been arguing about it behind the scenes for a while, but because there was a chance they had sent it he didn’t say anything. Now they’re just refusing to pay.
July 18, 2008 at 3:47 pmtrevor brown has stated that HE GAVE THEM PERMISSION to use the image and said good luck to them, when they were unheard of and he didnt think he could get any money from them. the mistake was them not getting it in writing, cause as history goes, some people who think someone else is making a shiny penny want it all for themselves. he’s greedy, they arranged a deal and there was a money order in his name that he never picked up, he only ever wanted publicity, and this arguing is exactly what he wanted. dont visit his site, dont read his blog, it only perpetuates this sick loser’s perception that people give a crap about him or his art.
July 19, 2008 at 10:50 amA question for “gary”, and his assortment of other made up names here in this thread and countless other threads elsewhere on this topic.
WHY did Crystal Castles use TREVOR BROWN’s art and not another artist’s work? WHY do they INSIST on using TREVOR BROWN’s art for everything?
July 23, 2008 at 9:32 am
Looks like madge learned her lesson.
April 25, 2008 at 3:51 pm